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How did you make music? Cause you carry
a star.

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Well, God help the true, but all who
tries to be a star.

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Go on and play the chords of love, my
friend.

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00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,240
Of course he had these terrific
conflicts between what was good for his

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career and what was good for his
conscience.

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And with most artists in America, I'd
say with 99% of the artists, this

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conflict gets easily solved very early
by agents and managers and producers and

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sycophants that hang around them and
everybody goes for the bucks. And if

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Phil wanted to take that route, there's
no doubt in my mind that he had the

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talent to pull in millions of dollars.

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but his conscience always threw him back
to the streets.

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And his politics always threw him, you
know, closer and closer to the movements

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he believed in.

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In a building of gold which is untold Is
the family on which the country

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was founded And the merchants of style
With their vain velvet smiles

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were there

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thing that i could say about phil was
that he was there really that he was

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there whenever you needed him whenever
some little no matter how small the

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group or big the group whenever anybody
asked i can never remember him turning

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down anybody any benefit any chance to
uh to sing for a cause he believed and

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he really he phil hoax was was there the
ice cubes would cling as they freshen

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their dreams wet their minds in bitter

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You know, he was really one of the
founders, guiding spirits of the

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Yippies. He understood that
instinctively.

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When was this, about 66,

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67? Yeah, it would be, I guess, around
the rising of the Pentagon.

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In October of 1967,

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about 50,000 of us.

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were able to lift the Pentagon off the
ground and exercise it of its evil

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spirit. Could you explain that in a
little more detail? Well, you had to be

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there to see it, you know. I don't know
if I can really explain these kind of

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things, but how it worked, you mean?

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Yeah.

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Well, I mean, at that point we had, I
think there were a number of us, Ed

35
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Sanders, Jerry Rubin, Bill Oaks,
Ginsburg to some extent, poets.

36
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artists, committed radicals, people that
didn't believe in art for art's sake,

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but art for a good sake, for a higher
sake, who felt that the combining of

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a cultural revolution with a political
revolution would be an extremely

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powerful ingredient to bring the message
to masses and masses of people.

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I declare, along with thousands of other
Americans, the war is over.

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If you think you're surprised to hear
the war is over, imagine how the

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administration's going to feel when they
hear about it. See, Phil was really a

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singer for the masses. That was one of
his great frustrations.

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And, of course, his great idol was Elvis
Presley. He always wished that he could

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have his mind inside almost the body of
Elvis Presley so that he could bring to

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millions and millions of people what he
felt in his heart. If they don't have

47
00:04:01,130 --> 00:04:05,290
the courage of their reality to declare
this war on, we should at least have the

48
00:04:05,290 --> 00:04:07,830
courage of our imaginations to declare
it over.

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So do your duty, boys, and join with
pride.

50
00:04:15,330 --> 00:04:19,190
Serve your country in her suicide.

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00:04:20,810 --> 00:04:25,150
Find a flag so you can wave goodbye.

52
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But just before the end, even treason
might be worth a try.

53
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This country is too young to die.

54
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it was interesting how the uh war is
over phenomenon came about phil got the

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idea that we should put together a
demonstration to declare the war is over

56
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and he ran around frantic he'd get very
when he got onto an idea he got as manic

57
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as most of the other creative artists
that you know and he designed posters,

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and he got the World War II poster of
the sale of Kissings.

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We were going to make it a reality.

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And we all gathered in Washington Square
Park, and of course he sang the song,

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and about 5,000 people just went
streaming up the boulevard, you know,

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into all the stores and every, hugging
people, the war is over, the war is

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over. And it was quite effective because
in that moment they had to say, well,

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what would it be like if it was over?

65
00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,800
The battle in America is between the
child and the machine.

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00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:52,060
Jerry Rubin and I conducted a proxy
debate for several years, usually

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through Phil. I kept telling Phil that
Jerry was a bad influence on him, and

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Jerry kept telling Phil that I was a
backward liberal influence on him. I

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don't want the system to survive.

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00:06:02,260 --> 00:06:08,660
You do. In the 60s, myself and the
people that I worked with, we were very

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00:06:08,660 --> 00:06:11,220
self-confident about our position, that
we were right and everyone else was

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wrong. To me, America...

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And so therefore, even though Phil was
just a little bit to the right of us,

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shall we say, you know, we would have
these huge arguments. I remember at one

75
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Washington demonstration, he ended a
song by saying, okay, when you protest

76
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today, be sure to protest with dignity.

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And I remember we getting so upset about
that because what right does Phil have?

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to preach to us about dignity when the
United States is undignifyingly dropping

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bombs on the Vietnamese.

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In any way, is dignity really going to
end the war? What's going to end the war

81
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is total outrageousness. And that was
kind of my difference with Phil. Phil

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believed in reason. He thought that
reason would finally end the war.

83
00:07:07,020 --> 00:07:08,520
Our national honor.

84
00:07:09,220 --> 00:07:12,260
Stop the bombing and stop the war.

85
00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:19,160
In October of 1967, Kennedy was going to
give his first

86
00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,600
full-dress speech against the Vietnam
War on the floor of the United States

87
00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,820
Senate. And Phil came with me, and he
sat in the press gallery as Kennedy gave

88
00:07:27,820 --> 00:07:34,160
a speech, which was a very emotional and
moving denunciation of the war policy

89
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and the bombing of North Vietnam.

90
00:07:36,170 --> 00:07:41,170
And after the speech, Kennedy flew back
to New York on the shuttle, and Phil and

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00:07:41,170 --> 00:07:42,650
I flew back with him.

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And on the plane, Phil, without a
guitar, sung

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00:07:49,150 --> 00:07:51,290
Crucifixion for Robert.

94
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And I think midway through the song,
Robert Kennedy understood that

95
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Crucifixion was partly about his
brother, John Kennedy, and he was

96
00:08:04,250 --> 00:08:05,570
absolutely wiped out.

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00:08:06,030 --> 00:08:11,790
by this rendition of Phil singing
Crucifixion, just tapping his feet on

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00:08:11,790 --> 00:08:16,290
the back of the Eastern Airline shuttle
on the day that Robert Kennedy finally

99
00:08:16,290 --> 00:08:19,510
liberated himself from his brother's
mistake in Vietnam.

100
00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:40,380
I am announcing today my candidacy for
the presidency of the United States.

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00:08:42,020 --> 00:08:47,600
I run because it is now unmistakably
clear that we can change these

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disastrous, divisive policies only by
changing the men who are now making

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them.

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00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:02,020
I shall not see, and I will not accept.

105
00:09:03,210 --> 00:09:06,770
The nomination of my party for another
term as your president.

106
00:09:07,090 --> 00:09:09,030
I just want to do God's will.

107
00:09:10,750 --> 00:09:13,510
And he's allowed me to go up to the
mountain.

108
00:09:14,390 --> 00:09:15,770
And I've looked over.

109
00:09:17,030 --> 00:09:20,730
And I've seen the promised land.

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00:09:21,110 --> 00:09:27,870
No one, no matter where he lives or what
he does, can be certain who

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next will suffer from some senseless
act.

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00:09:32,490 --> 00:09:38,770
a bloodshed and yet it goes on and on
and on

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00:09:38,770 --> 00:09:45,530
in this country of ours why in 1968 i
was a very

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00:09:45,530 --> 00:09:49,810
active supporter of robert kennedy
campaign for the democratic nomination

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00:09:49,810 --> 00:09:54,690
and most most of my friends were active
supporters of gene mccarthy including

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phil and i felt very strongly that while
mccarthy had the courage to run for

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president and and was very good on the
issue of the Vietnam War.

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He was indifferent to the cause of poor
people and indifferent to the problem of

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racism. On the Saturday before Kennedy
was assassinated, Phil and I flew

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together from New York to Los Angeles,
and I think in the course of that five

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00:10:19,940 --> 00:10:23,780
-and-a-half-hour flight, I made all
these arguments to Phil, and I think

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00:10:23,780 --> 00:10:27,800
that did convince Phil in the final
hours of the California primary to

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00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,220
change his affections from McCarthy to
Kennedy.

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00:10:36,010 --> 00:10:40,410
It was as traumatic for Phil as it was
for many people, I think. Phil had a

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weakness for apocalyptic events, and for
him to be in Los Angeles on the night of

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such an apocalyptic event as Kennedy's
assassination, I think it did have an

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00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:55,410
effect on his politics and his view of
the world.

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00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:28,780
Bill was one of the few singers to
participate politically in the Festival

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00:11:28,780 --> 00:11:33,520
of Light. We had conceived of this whole
alternative in the park by presenting a

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00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:34,520
kind of Woodstock.

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00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:38,020
But Mayor Daley didn't give us any
permits, so just a few brave souls that

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00:11:38,020 --> 00:11:40,180
came, and just about everybody chickened
out.

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00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,720
Bill was basically down deep, probably a
liberal in a sense. You know, a liberal

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00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,460
who liked Che Guevara. You explain it, I
don't know.

135
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He would go up and sing with Gene
McCarthy.

136
00:11:48,010 --> 00:11:51,170
and then come and hang out with people
who were totally opposed to Gene

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00:11:51,170 --> 00:11:55,750
McCarthy because he was so outraged by
American imperialism, which motivated

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Phil.

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00:11:57,030 --> 00:12:00,590
The speakers at Grant Park tried to
prevent riotous behavior so that

140
00:12:00,590 --> 00:12:02,490
demonstrations would not be broken up by
police.

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00:12:02,890 --> 00:12:06,570
Protest singer Phil Oakes spoke against
any violence regarding the

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00:12:06,570 --> 00:12:11,330
demonstrations. His pet phrase was,
quote, keep your cool, unquote.

143
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:16,310
He believed that outraging the country
was not the way to go. But at the same

144
00:12:16,310 --> 00:12:18,410
time... He liked the yippy sense of
theater.

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00:12:18,610 --> 00:12:20,910
For example, Phil was arrested in the
pig-assist demonstration.

146
00:12:21,370 --> 00:12:25,570
The first day of the convention in
Chicago, we brought a pig to the Civic

147
00:12:25,570 --> 00:12:28,650
Center, and we said the Democrats are
running a pig, the Republicans are

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00:12:28,650 --> 00:12:31,170
running a pig, and here's our candidate.
Why should we be any different? Our

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00:12:31,170 --> 00:12:33,270
candidate's garbage. And Phil was one of
the six people arrested.

150
00:12:33,470 --> 00:12:37,870
We went out, my little band, Jerry and I
was fat and had some friction at that

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00:12:37,870 --> 00:12:41,710
time, and I went out and got this pig,
you know, and we paid good money.

152
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,520
for the pig we did a lot of good
bargaining we got the pig in the back of

153
00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:49,720
the car we brought the pig back we put
it there and ruben came in and said the

154
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:54,220
pig's no good it's not it's not ugly
enough it's not big enough but i said

155
00:12:54,220 --> 00:12:58,540
this is our candidate it's not supposed
to be ugly and big this is the pig we

156
00:12:58,540 --> 00:13:02,660
love and the party split and they went
out and they got their own pig you see

157
00:13:02,660 --> 00:13:09,410
so so phil was trying to uh mediate
between us the two pig

158
00:13:09,410 --> 00:13:13,550
factions at the same time talked to the
McCarthyites trying to bring the Hubert

159
00:13:13,550 --> 00:13:16,850
Humphrey people together and try to cool
out Mayor Daley.

160
00:13:17,770 --> 00:13:22,150
He was playing... I don't know if he had
a chance to sing a lot of songs those

161
00:13:22,150 --> 00:13:25,790
few days in Chicago, but he was in a
mighty peculiar role.

162
00:13:28,050 --> 00:13:33,430
And with George McGovern as President of
the United States, we wouldn't have to

163
00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:36,470
have Gestapo sataxis in the streets of
Chicago.

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00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:49,680
National Guard

165
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,600
After Chicago, Phil was very
disillusioned. He could not believe what

166
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:35,600
actually happened in Chicago.

167
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,840
Because basically he was a social
democrat.

168
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,080
And when he saw Democracy in Action in
Chicago, he really was honestly shocked.

169
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,920
And when he came back, he got the idea
for the rehearsals for Retirement Album,

170
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,920
which was basically that he had died in
Chicago, that the American ideals had

171
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:51,799
died in Chicago.

172
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:53,900
The whole idea of democracy had died in
Chicago.

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00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,220
And so that's why he put the tombstone
on the cover of the rehearsals for

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00:14:57,220 --> 00:14:58,220
Retirement Album.

175
00:14:58,330 --> 00:15:00,930
And he wrote a bunch of songs spurred on
by the Chicago incident.

176
00:15:01,570 --> 00:15:03,710
And then after that, that album didn't
do that well.

177
00:15:03,930 --> 00:15:07,270
After that, he started searching again
for another direction. And there was no

178
00:15:07,270 --> 00:15:08,270
Stimuli anymore.

179
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:48,920
Now, I'm a topical singer.

180
00:15:49,380 --> 00:15:52,920
I'm not a folk singer per se. I'm a
topical singer. And after nine years of

181
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,820
being a political singer, I definitely
do have a reaction against the

182
00:15:56,820 --> 00:16:00,760
counterculture. I think that the whole
idea of having a freak counterculture is

183
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:01,739
a disaster.

184
00:16:01,740 --> 00:16:05,380
I think that in order to have a real
revolution, you have to have one

185
00:16:05,380 --> 00:16:06,380
country.

186
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:12,900
To have this freak counterculture is
isolationist, and Nixon is using it

187
00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:14,920
against it. Nixon is very definitely...

188
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:20,280
uh conducting his campaign and
essentially using the line uh no matter

189
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:24,180
what you might think of me i i'm
straight i'm a regular guy and if you

190
00:16:24,180 --> 00:16:28,740
don't have me you're going to have some
hippie freak who's going to have dope in

191
00:16:28,740 --> 00:16:32,340
the streets and destroying the country
and he's using that line very very

192
00:16:32,340 --> 00:16:39,140
effectively every everything is uh quite
a bit harder than i

193
00:16:39,140 --> 00:16:42,960
realized this was a song that

194
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,360
It always made me a little bit sad when
I'd hear him sing it.

195
00:16:47,300 --> 00:16:50,580
Because Phil was always talking about
immortality and, you know, like, this

196
00:16:50,580 --> 00:16:52,460
was great and this one was great.

197
00:16:53,180 --> 00:16:57,660
He had a very historical sense of
everything. Anything that moved down the

198
00:16:57,660 --> 00:17:00,760
street had some kind of historical value
to it.

199
00:17:01,100 --> 00:17:02,660
So I always loved this tune.

200
00:17:03,540 --> 00:17:04,599
It's called When I'm Gone.

201
00:17:09,460 --> 00:17:10,500
There's no place...

202
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,579
In this world where I belong when I'm
gone.

203
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:22,680
I won't know the right from the wrong
when I'm gone.

204
00:17:23,780 --> 00:17:29,880
You won't find me singing on this song
when I'm gone.

205
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:35,400
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm
here.

206
00:17:44,580 --> 00:17:51,560
And the pleasures of love won't be mine
when I'm

207
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:52,560
gone.

208
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:59,280
My pen won't pour a lyric rhyme when I'm
gone.

209
00:18:00,060 --> 00:18:04,520
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm
gone.

210
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:14,340
Won't see the golden of the sun when I'm
gone.

211
00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:21,780
And evenings and the mornings will be
one when I'm gone.

212
00:18:23,100 --> 00:18:29,320
Can't be singing louder than the guns
when I'm gone.

213
00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:32,900
So I guess I'll have to do it.

214
00:18:38,060 --> 00:18:44,240
there's no place in this world where i
belong when i'm gone

215
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:50,960
and i won't know the right from the
wrong when

216
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:57,220
i'm gone you won't find me singing on
this song

217
00:18:57,220 --> 00:19:02,900
when i'm gone so i guess i'll have to do
it

218
00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:06,660
i guess i'll have to do it

219
00:19:08,110 --> 00:19:10,110
I guess I'll have to do.

220
00:20:46,980 --> 00:20:49,840
When you combine Chicago with Kent
State, that pretty much killed the

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00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,600
movement. And so without that, Phil was
at a temporary loss.

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And then he started coming up with this
weird idea that since we all grew up on

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early rock and roll, that he thought
basically for a revolution to work in

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this country, you'd have to get somebody
that had the persona of an Albus Presley

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in the mind of a Che Guevara.

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And so he said, wouldn't that be great
if he did that on stage?

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You know, like if Presley became
politicized, if Presley would actually

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come out for something. I mean, just
think of the impact that would have.

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And he said, well, since President,
well, what a night.

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I've been living up in Hollywood,
California for the last couple of years.

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I don't think it's had any effect on me.

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I'd like to do a song now that was first
recorded by someone who was very near

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and dear to my heart way back in the
1950s.

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Could this be the generation gap?

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As you know, I died in Chicago in 1968.

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And I got to go to heaven because I was
a very, very good boy and I wrote a very

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lyrical song.

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And while I was up in heaven, I spoke to
God.

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God said to me, Phil, you know, it's
almost over down there on Earth.

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Just a couple of days left.

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But you can go back and you can be
anybody you want to be.

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So I thought, now, who would I want to
be?

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And then it hit me.

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The person that I would like to be most
is the king of pop, the king of music,

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Elvis.

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00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:42,040
Well, since my baby left me, I found a
new place to dwell.

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Mostly you hear about the first show,
which was a disaster.

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But I was at the second show, playing no
more songs with him at the end.

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And people wouldn't let him off. He
really freaked out at that concert

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because the first show bombed so much
that a couple of his fans asked him for

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his money back.

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The ticket booth wasn't cooperating with
him, so I put his fist through the

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window.

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Cut his thumb up pretty bad.

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I just fell out and played that set.

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It's completely different than the first
show because Phil, after he cut his

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tongue, who was kind of in a state of
shock, opened up to the audience.

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If your baby leaves you, you've got a
tale to tell.

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Well, take a walk down Lonely Street. At
the end of the show, we got standing

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00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,560
ovations, and the people wouldn't let
them off, and so they actually turned

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off the power. Phil started chanting,
give us the power, give us the power,

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and everybody was up on their feet
chanting, give us the power.

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Oh,

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let's not be narrow-minded Americans
about this now.

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I think what we're doing up here is
music.

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I think it deserves to be heard.

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I am America.

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I am gold.

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I am money.

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I am hip.

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I am moral.

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I am America.

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I didn't personally think he was a good
performer and told him that.

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But there's something interesting. He
was very determined to make it in this

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business and to make it in a commercial
way.

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He was extremely jealous, I think, of
Bob Dylan, who was a contemporary of

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his, and vowed to me at one time that
he's going to be much more popular and

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bigger than Bob Dylan.

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Of course, this never happened.

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I think one of the big problems that he
had over the years is this compulsion to

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make it, that is, to make it
commercially. He had certainly

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recognition in the folk music field as a
very good writer and would have been

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able certainly to make a reasonably good
living.

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But he wanted to reach the top, and this
was never achieved.

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And, well, as we know, the situation
when he then became imitative of Presley

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was a thing that many of us just scoffed
at.

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Outside of a small circle of friends
Outside of a small circle of friends

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00:26:56,870 --> 00:27:01,010
Outside of a small circle of friends

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00:27:01,010 --> 00:27:07,930
Now, me, I go way

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00:27:07,930 --> 00:27:09,750
back to the time of the students.

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00:27:10,350 --> 00:27:15,570
When the students were striking over, if
you'll excuse the expression, political

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00:27:15,570 --> 00:27:16,570
issues.

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00:27:17,610 --> 00:27:19,910
The purpose of the 60s was to educate.

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Not just America, but the world.

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00:27:23,580 --> 00:27:24,580
And that succeeded.

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00:27:25,780 --> 00:27:28,900
These people sitting up in Vermont
growing vegetables, they know what's

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going on.

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00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,620
They're not the same crew they were back
in the 1950s.

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And they're going to make a comeback at
just the right moment.

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00:27:37,980 --> 00:27:43,120
But if they misjudge the right moment,
we'll all be dead.

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Seems bitter.

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00:27:50,250 --> 00:27:57,110
Show me the whiskey stains on

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00:27:57,110 --> 00:28:03,610
the floor Show me the drunkard

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00:28:03,610 --> 00:28:08,490
as he stumbles out the door

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00:28:08,490 --> 00:28:14,570
And I'll show you a young man

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with so many...

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Where bombs had to fall.

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00:29:32,460 --> 00:29:38,180
potentially a tragic figure and became a
tragic figure and the song is the

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personification of the way in which
people reach out to one another because

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they see the pain and the inequity in
life and if that is not the turning

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point for the kind of activism and human
connection that characterized the 1960s

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then for me looking back on it I really
don't know what is

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File number 100441378.

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Returned from Europe and Africa.